The Scarlet Letter

I love that you’re wrestling through this. Wish we could sit over coffee and talk f2f.

I’m sorry you’re still in pain – I think going back to the dr. is wise. You should not have to live in that much pain.

You know Chris, there’s a huge difference between how you write about the problems you have now as opposed to when you wrote about the problems you had several years ago. I don’t get the feeling you are going to succumb to your problems even though you currently are suffering greatly. I just thought I would point that out. I don’t enjoy hearing you’re in pain but I do enjoy NOT feeling you might be tempted to pick up and NOT feeling you will not care for yourself in any other way. It’s a good thing to NOT feel those things about someone. It’s especially good to NOT feel them about you.

The problem with the concept of “Believing in God” is that it requires one to construct a definition of God. I have come to feel that God is not definable so I have dispensed with the believe or not part. On a good day I am in sync with the evolution of All That Is. On a bad day I am not and then I know I need to get back in step with the constant change of All That Is. It’s not always so simple but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it, at least for now.

Case

“I’m just tired of feeling like I’m supposed to believe in god to stay sober and tired of trying to make the magical thinking return.”

where does it say in the big book that you need to believe in god to stay sober???

I !!!! never say that to sponees. I would FAR rather they use a concept of a power greater than themselves than any notion of a ‘god’ or other ? religious concepts.

so ..a concept of a POWER greater than themselves, yeah. god no. theres a !!!! BIG difference between the two things. why bother with the latter if the big book EXPLICITLY states it is surplus to requirements?

Step Two. – the Minimum Requirement
http://anon-recovery-archive.blogspot.com/2006/06/step-two-minimum-requirement.html

We needed to ask ourselves but ONE short question.
“Do I now believe,
or am I even willing to believe,
that there is a Power greater than myself?”

Chapter 1. BILL’S STORY page 12
Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning.

Tradition 2. It HAS to be a LOVING Power. Not JUGMENTAL or PUNISHING.
A Constructive not a Destructive force.

Look up the word POWER in the dictionary.
The word is POWER not God. Don’t get them confused.
Mull over the word ‘Power’ and see what images come to mind..
Personally I like the visualization of ‘Power’ in the cinema. Like in the X men, star wars or star trek type things. They often try to dramatize ‘Power’ at some point in the storyline. This is a useful tool to help us meditate on what the word ‘Power’ means to us.

As soon as a man can say
that he does believe,
or is willing to believe,
we emphatically assure him that he is on his way.

It has been repeatedly proven among us
that upon this simple cornerstone
a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.

Chapter 4. WE AGNOSTICS page 47
At the start, this was all we needed to commence spiritual growth,
to effect our first conscious relation
with God as we understood Him.

Chapter 4. WE AGNOSTICS
page 55
the consciousness of your belief is sure to come to you.

Here are some ideas for a concept of a Power Greater than Yourself

The Power of AA as a whole
The collective power of the group.
The Power that makes the Earth turn
Good Orderly Direction
Group Of Drunks
The sense of magnitude you get when you look at the stars at night.
The Universe..
Gravity

The more you think about it, the more you realize that everybody has a concept of a power greater than themselves.
Think what life would be like if the world was full of people that thought they were the most powerful entity in the universe. (!) weird huh?

How to get a LOVING concept of a Higher Power. If you do not already have one.
http://anon-recovery-archive.blogspot.com/2007/03/how-to-get-loving-concept-of-higher.html
It HAS to be a LOVING concept of a HP. (see Trad 2.) If it is even a LITTLE bit judgmental, it’s no good. Generally, when talking to your higher power, ask for help with whatever ROADBLOCKS you are experiencing at present.
If the roadblock is that you have a PUNISHING or JUDGEMENTAL higher power, then this is not really in keeping with the ‘instructions’ in Tradition 2.
You can get very unstuck down the line, if you ‘drift’ into a punishing concept.
With AA It’s ALL in the detail!! (Well that’s what I think anyway.) I am AMAZED at how STUCK people can get at a later stage if they do not ‘dot the I’s and stroke the t’s’ if you know what I mean..

I ALWAYS say to new people..
Ask your higher power for the MOST loving concept of a POWER greater than you.
Ask your higher power for the MOST powerful concept of a POWER greater than you.
Self will isn’t going to get you there! (See Big Book quote below) That’s how I got my concept…

Why not try ‘the power of AA as a whole’ to begin with?
Or the power that makes the earth turn?

“If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered LONG ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did NOT save us, NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE TRIED.
We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with ALL our might, BUT THE NEEDED POWER WASN’T THERE.
Our human resources, as marshaled by the will, WERE NOT SUFFICIENT: they FAILED UTTERLY.” p45

Hi Chris- Don’t let your head get all tangled up in trying to figure all this out. I have had many people in recovery guarantee my failure because of my personal beliefs. Many of them have relapsed and I have not. I read Eckhart Tolle and it makes sense to me that all power comes from within. I do not believe this to be self-will. I think of it more as my better self (Thank you, Dar Williams!), and my addict behavior is more in the self-will category. Stay on YOUR path and don’t get caught up in the details. There are many, many ways to stay clean. There are people who get clean every day who don’t participate in ANY program- they are not part of the “statistics”. I myself like NA just because I like meeting other people who want to stay clean, and quite frankly, it does me a world of good to see people newly clean- it reminds me that I want to be where I am now- not where I was.

My best to you, Chris. Your writings always make me think.

Scott.

enjoyed your new banner but i hope one day that A turns into a <3 – one that knows he is loved and lovable. we really need to sit down and have coffee soon.

i wouldn't worry about 5,7 & 11 yet – just start with one foot in front of the next – that leaves you with step 3.

"over to the care of god as we understand him"… i can see how that doesn't make sense. the god of our past wasn't a nurturer, wasn't caring or kind. that kind of god isn't trustworthy – just vindictive and exclusionary – i don't blame you one bit for not wanting to work that step with the damage "that god" has done in your life chris. "he" has invalidated everything that you are and hold dear. cut you out, off and left you cold and alone. how do you give anything over to that kind of god, let alone something as precious as your recovery?

and that is the beauty of "as we understand him" – that has been the key that has unlocked everything for me. that means the god of our past isn't the god of our future. call it whatever you like, power, group of drunks, inner light, whatever – just be open to the existence of that higher power – don't close the door to that.

i have never done the agnostic/atheist thing – i don't want to live in a world where there isn't a god. so even if i have to invent him/her/it i'm okay with that – the stark world of the atheist is terrifying to me. it would leave me drunk, strung out and in a gutter somewhere. why keep going if the world is that bleak?

what helped me was to borrow someone else's god for awhile. in recovery i was surrounded with people who had hopeful gods. theirs was nice, loving and nurturing. so i traded up.

i imagined the best parent i knew – the one who kisses the boo-boo, shelters the hurting, has shoulders strong enough to cry on, a lap big enough to hold me and arms warm & meaty enough for that wonderful, strong, reaffirming, life-giving hug. and that became the picture that i used to replace that horrible god of my past.

and it worked. and it's still working – and by opening myself up to the possibility THAT god has become real for me.

we read step six in the aa 12 & 12 the other night at group and this stood out to me like i'd never heard it before – the principle is the same as i'm trying to connect to here:

"The moment we say, "No never!" our minds close against the grace of God. Delay is dangerous, and rebellion may be fatal. This is the exact point at which we abandon limited objectives, and move toward God's will for us."

what if closing out minds to the possibility is the exact thing that keeps us sick?

i don't know if i can articulate this well enough yet, but what if it is "the possibility" that something is possible THAT makes the very thing possible?

what if embracing the idea that we are loved and lovable by a worthy god that makes that very thing possible?

all i ask is that you keep seeking. don't close your mind to the possibility of grace.

oh, and has shins big enough to kick – kick away – he/she/it can take it.

i hate that you’re in pain. praying for you this a.m. even as i type. much love.

“Well, it seems that 3, 5, 7, and 11 all require or presume a conception of God, ”
ahh i see. well Ive never thought that to be the case, and was never told by old timers that that was a requirement. TERMINOLOGY varies yes, but the basic requirement doesn’t. there’s a BIG difference. i think you are confusing terminology with requirements. Unless you cross reference terms used later in the text to their defined requirements as stated earlier, you will find the instructions very !! confusing. well that’s what i think

I cant see the point in having a concept of a ‘god’ anyway, as the human mind is an utterly inadequate device with which to grasp such a thing. so not much point trying..

i think the concept of an HP is very !!! explicitly defined in step 2, and i think its common sense to assume that the references at a later point do not go off on some weird tangent, but are instead a reiteration of the principle laid out in step 2. the fact that SOME choose to cal their HP god, does not mean ALL AA’s have to.

its all in the detail. At NO point in the big book does it say that AA’s MUST interpret a power greater than themselves to be ‘God’ in order to stay sober. so there’s your answer! Simple really

The chapter on the spiritual experience really !!!! hammers this point home, so I have ? no idea who put this crazy idea into your head that AA requires you to have a RELIGIOUS concept of a HP. Nothing could be farther from the truth in my experience.

You must be hanging around some ??? die hard bible basing aa’s or something?? weird. we don’t have that problem over here thank god.

Glad to be of help
I find the people whose ill defined concept bites em on the bum later, are the ones who dont RELIGIOUSLY (hahaaha) stick to the instructions in step 2. on an ongoing basis really. it always catches up with em in the end
if you follow EXACTLY the step 2 guidelines this time you should be FINE

This will help things too:
Ask your higher power for the !!! MOST loving concept of a POWER greater than you.
Ask your higher power for the !!!! MOST powerful concept of a POWER greater than you.

God help you with those crazy jesus types. I find Ajhan Amaro a refreshing voice of reason when I have been exposed to imbalanced or over eager viewpoint. settles down my thinking and makes me more calm.
Good luck with the your new ‘pimped’ (as they say these days hahaa) concept of a HP