Comments on: The Scarlet Letter http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/ Tales of Recovery from Crystal Meth Addiction Sun, 06 May 2012 06:43:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Irish Friend of Bill http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2324 Irish Friend of Bill Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:53:52 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2324 It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built. We agnostics p47 Doesnt say 'except for Chris"does it? well then! hhehe off you go! It has been repeatedly proven among us
that upon this simple cornerstone
a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.
We agnostics p47

Doesnt say ‘except for Chris”does it?
well then! hhehe off you go!

]]> By: Irish Friend of Bill http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2323 Irish Friend of Bill Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:49:41 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2323 Glad to be of help :) I find the people whose ill defined concept bites em on the bum later, are the ones who dont RELIGIOUSLY (hahaaha) stick to the instructions in step 2. on an ongoing basis really. it always catches up with em in the end :) if you follow EXACTLY the step 2 guidelines this time you should be FINE :) This will help things too: Ask your higher power for the !!! MOST loving concept of a POWER greater than you. Ask your higher power for the !!!! MOST powerful concept of a POWER greater than you. God help you with those crazy jesus types. I find Ajhan Amaro a refreshing voice of reason when I have been exposed to imbalanced or over eager viewpoint. settles down my thinking and makes me more calm. Good luck with the your new 'pimped' (as they say these days hahaa) concept of a HP :) Glad to be of help :)
I find the people whose ill defined concept bites em on the bum later, are the ones who dont RELIGIOUSLY (hahaaha) stick to the instructions in step 2. on an ongoing basis really. it always catches up with em in the end :)
if you follow EXACTLY the step 2 guidelines this time you should be FINE :)

This will help things too:
Ask your higher power for the !!! MOST loving concept of a POWER greater than you.
Ask your higher power for the !!!! MOST powerful concept of a POWER greater than you.

God help you with those crazy jesus types. I find Ajhan Amaro a refreshing voice of reason when I have been exposed to imbalanced or over eager viewpoint. settles down my thinking and makes me more calm.
Good luck with the your new ‘pimped’ (as they say these days hahaa) concept of a HP :)

]]> By: Chris http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2321 Chris Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:25:46 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2321 "I cant see the point in having a concept of a ‘god' anyway, as the human mind is an utterly inadequate device with which to grasp such a thing. so not much point trying.." Utterly brilliant. And exactly the point I've (finally) arrived at. Any conception and discussion of conception is bound to be nonsense. "You must be hanging around some ??? die hard bible basing aa's or something??" Yes - here, deep in the immaculate heart of Jesusland it is very hard to escape. Here they close meetings by saying the Lord's Prayer. I've had people with 25 years sober recently tell me that I had to find Jesus because Jesus IS THE higher power of the program and without calling on the name of the Lord Jesus I'm doomed. That, along with brand new chronic pain, the fallout of massive surgery, being stuck flat on my back for a month, being strung out on opiates for that time, seriously derailed me, though I didn't abuse my prescription, drink or use street drugs; probably as close as one can be to experiencing relapse without actually relapsing. And the problem really was that I had been living with a "conception" of a higher power that gigantically let me down and I've been angry about it. I guess this whole crisis has really been cleaning house of an inadequate conception and finding something that, as the book suggests, "makes sense" to me. Thank you for giving me so much of your time and your thoughtful suggestions. I really appreciate hearing a reasoned and experienced voice from outside of our little isolated community. (I have got to, eventually, get the hell out of Idaho. I fucking hate it here.) “I cant see the point in having a concept of a ‘god’ anyway, as the human mind is an utterly inadequate device with which to grasp such a thing. so not much point trying..”

Utterly brilliant. And exactly the point I’ve (finally) arrived at. Any conception and discussion of conception is bound to be nonsense.

“You must be hanging around some ??? die hard bible basing aa’s or something??”

Yes – here, deep in the immaculate heart of Jesusland it is very hard to escape. Here they close meetings by saying the Lord’s Prayer. I’ve had people with 25 years sober recently tell me that I had to find Jesus because Jesus IS THE higher power of the program and without calling on the name of the Lord Jesus I’m doomed.

That, along with brand new chronic pain, the fallout of massive surgery, being stuck flat on my back for a month, being strung out on opiates for that time, seriously derailed me, though I didn’t abuse my prescription, drink or use street drugs; probably as close as one can be to experiencing relapse without actually relapsing.

And the problem really was that I had been living with a “conception” of a higher power that gigantically let me down and I’ve been angry about it. I guess this whole crisis has really been cleaning house of an inadequate conception and finding something that, as the book suggests, “makes sense” to me.

Thank you for giving me so much of your time and your thoughtful suggestions. I really appreciate hearing a reasoned and experienced voice from outside of our little isolated community. (I have got to, eventually, get the hell out of Idaho. I fucking hate it here.)

]]> By: Irish Friend of Bill http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2320 Irish Friend of Bill Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:41:09 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2320 "Well, it seems that 3, 5, 7, and 11 all require or presume a conception of God, " ahh i see. well Ive never thought that to be the case, and was never told by old timers that that was a requirement. TERMINOLOGY varies yes, but the basic requirement doesn't. there's a BIG difference. i think you are confusing terminology with requirements. Unless you cross reference terms used later in the text to their defined requirements as stated earlier, you will find the instructions very !! confusing. well that's what i think I cant see the point in having a concept of a 'god' anyway, as the human mind is an utterly inadequate device with which to grasp such a thing. so not much point trying.. i think the concept of an HP is very !!! explicitly defined in step 2, and i think its common sense to assume that the references at a later point do not go off on some weird tangent, but are instead a reiteration of the principle laid out in step 2. the fact that SOME choose to cal their HP god, does not mean ALL AA's have to. its all in the detail. At NO point in the big book does it say that AA's MUST interpret a power greater than themselves to be 'God' in order to stay sober. so there's your answer! Simple really :) The chapter on the spiritual experience really !!!! hammers this point home, so I have ? no idea who put this crazy idea into your head that AA requires you to have a RELIGIOUS concept of a HP. Nothing could be farther from the truth in my experience. You must be hanging around some ??? die hard bible basing aa's or something?? weird. we don't have that problem over here thank god. “Well, it seems that 3, 5, 7, and 11 all require or presume a conception of God, ”
ahh i see. well Ive never thought that to be the case, and was never told by old timers that that was a requirement. TERMINOLOGY varies yes, but the basic requirement doesn’t. there’s a BIG difference. i think you are confusing terminology with requirements. Unless you cross reference terms used later in the text to their defined requirements as stated earlier, you will find the instructions very !! confusing. well that’s what i think

I cant see the point in having a concept of a ‘god’ anyway, as the human mind is an utterly inadequate device with which to grasp such a thing. so not much point trying..

i think the concept of an HP is very !!! explicitly defined in step 2, and i think its common sense to assume that the references at a later point do not go off on some weird tangent, but are instead a reiteration of the principle laid out in step 2. the fact that SOME choose to cal their HP god, does not mean ALL AA’s have to.

its all in the detail. At NO point in the big book does it say that AA’s MUST interpret a power greater than themselves to be ‘God’ in order to stay sober. so there’s your answer! Simple really :)

The chapter on the spiritual experience really !!!! hammers this point home, so I have ? no idea who put this crazy idea into your head that AA requires you to have a RELIGIOUS concept of a HP. Nothing could be farther from the truth in my experience.

You must be hanging around some ??? die hard bible basing aa’s or something?? weird. we don’t have that problem over here thank god.

]]> By: Chris http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2316 Chris Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:46:35 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2316 Oh, yeah, and Greg Salzer, founder of Ascend Recovery? AKA Drug Rehab Utah? This blog is like a meeting. It isn't appropriate for you to advertise your your cheezy little Highland Utah Rehab here. So I'm breaking the link in your reply. Oh, yeah, and Greg Salzer, founder of Ascend Recovery? AKA Drug Rehab Utah?

This blog is like a meeting. It isn’t appropriate for you to advertise your your cheezy little Highland Utah Rehab here. So I’m breaking the link in your reply.

]]> By: Chris http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2315 Chris Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:38:29 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2315 Well, in the first place, George Washington hardly believed in the god you're talking about. ("With respect to the inquiry you make, I can only state the following facts: that as pastor of the Episcopal Church, observing that, on sacramental Sundays George Washington, immediately after the desk and pulpit services, went out with the greater part of the congregation -- always leaving Mrs. Washington with the other communicants -- she invariably being one -- I considered it my duty, in a sermon on public worship, to state the unhappy tendency of example, particularly of those in elevated stations, who uniformly turned their backs on the Lord's Supper. I acknowledge the remark was intended for the President; and as such he received it. A few days after, in conversation, I believe, with a Senator of the United States, he told me he had dined the day before with the President, who, in the course of conversation at the table, said that, on the previous Sunday, he had received a very just rebuke from the pulpit for always leaving the church before the administration of the sacrament; that he honored the preacher for his integrity and candor; that he had never sufficiently considered the influence of his example, and that he would not again give cause for the repetition of the reproof; and that, as he had never been a communicant, were he to become one then, it would be imputed to an ostentatious display of religious zeal, arising altogether from his elevated station. Accordingly, he never afterwards came on the morning of sacrament Sunday, though at other times he was a constant attendant in the morning." -- The Reverend Doctor James Abercrombie, in a letter to a friend in 1833, Sprague's Annals of the American Pulpit, vol. 5, p. 394, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, pp. 25-26) And King David was a horrible human being who would fuck your wife and THEN kill you, just so you could get the full effect of the suffering. But the god you're taking about was sure on his side. I can categorically say that I don't want anything to do with a higher power that would reward that kind of behavior - and seemingly punish behavior like helping people through the steps, being self supporting, and working to be economically secure. No thoughts have been put in my head by the devil because there is no such thing as the devil. One can explain suffering and evil without the devil just as one can explain existence without god. If god is not necessary it is likely that god doesn't exist. If the devil is not necessary it is likely that the devil doesn't exist. Well, in the first place, George Washington hardly believed in the god you’re talking about. (“With respect to the inquiry you make, I can only state the following facts: that as pastor of the Episcopal Church, observing that, on sacramental Sundays George Washington, immediately after the desk and pulpit services, went out with the greater part of the congregation — always leaving Mrs. Washington with the other communicants — she invariably being one — I considered it my duty, in a sermon on public worship, to state the unhappy tendency of example, particularly of those in elevated stations, who uniformly turned their backs on the Lord’s Supper. I acknowledge the remark was intended for the President; and as such he received it. A few days after, in conversation, I believe, with a Senator of the United States, he told me he had dined the day before with the President, who, in the course of conversation at the table, said that, on the previous Sunday, he had received a very just rebuke from the pulpit for always leaving the church before the administration of the sacrament; that he honored the preacher for his integrity and candor; that he had never sufficiently considered the influence of his example, and that he would not again give cause for the repetition of the reproof; and that, as he had never been a communicant, were he to become one then, it would be imputed to an ostentatious display of religious zeal, arising altogether from his elevated station. Accordingly, he never afterwards came on the morning of sacrament Sunday, though at other times he was a constant attendant in the morning.”
– The Reverend Doctor James Abercrombie, in a letter to a friend in 1833, Sprague’s Annals of the American Pulpit, vol. 5, p. 394, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, pp. 25-26)

And King David was a horrible human being who would fuck your wife and THEN kill you, just so you could get the full effect of the suffering. But the god you’re taking about was sure on his side.

I can categorically say that I don’t want anything to do with a higher power that would reward that kind of behavior – and seemingly punish behavior like helping people through the steps, being self supporting, and working to be economically secure.

No thoughts have been put in my head by the devil because there is no such thing as the devil. One can explain suffering and evil without the devil just as one can explain existence without god. If god is not necessary it is likely that god doesn’t exist. If the devil is not necessary it is likely that the devil doesn’t exist.

]]> By: Drug Rehab Utah http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2314 Drug Rehab Utah Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:31:23 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2314 I am sorry you no longer believe in God. I must tell you, that thought has been put into in your head by the devil himself. God has always existed and will never go away no matter how long someone believes there is no God. Not only was your freedom given to you by God who was with the 4,000 troops at Valley Forge against more than 30,000 British soldiers. This is just one example that a group can do more than individual but only with God on their side. On the other hand an individual can do more than group in the story of David. One man destroyed an army with God's help. He has not left you but you have left him. Continue to lean on him and he will heal you pain. These are some things I have learned through reading the bible. I am sorry you no longer believe in God. I must tell you, that thought has been put into in your head by the devil himself. God has always existed and will never go away no matter how long someone believes there is no God. Not only was your freedom given to you by God who was with the 4,000 troops at Valley Forge against more than 30,000 British soldiers. This is just one example that a group can do more than individual but only with God on their side. On the other hand an individual can do more than group in the story of David. One man destroyed an army with God’s help. He has not left you but you have left him. Continue to lean on him and he will heal you pain. These are some things I have learned through reading the bible.

]]> By: bobbie http://thelastchancetexaco.com/principles/honesty-principles/the-scarlet-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-2313 bobbie Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:40:18 +0000 http://thelastchancetexaco.com/2009/07/02/the-scarlet-letter/#comment-2313 oh, and has shins big enough to kick - kick away - he/she/it can take it. i hate that you're in pain. praying for you this a.m. even as i type. much love. oh, and has shins big enough to kick – kick away – he/she/it can take it.

i hate that you’re in pain. praying for you this a.m. even as i type. much love.

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