Higher Power, Thy Name is Mudd

I do not consider myself a Christian. I do believe that there are very spiritual people out there, and he was one of them, but there are many other teachings out there than can allow us to connect to our higher consciousness out there.

Also, I love the map, finally we’d have some real estate with a warm climate.

i do and thank you for this. i cringe every time i’m at a meeting and someone does this too - like they are selling something. those who seek will find, on their own path and in their own time, it is not my job or anyone else’s to change/proselytize/push or sell.

oh, and btw - you’re welcome to join us in the united states of canada anytime!

I am so grateful I got sober down here–I don’t think of I heard the J-word once in a meeting as an embodiement of a Higher Power
I will even jump through hoops not to use “him”,” and am very grateful CMA altered that to “God as we understand God.” I feel any language that humanize the concept of a higher power is like saying the universe consists of our solar system.

I truly laughed out loud at your “Lucifer” comment! And perhaps that isn’t very spiritual, but it was between your words, me, and the God of my understanding who has a distinctive sense of humor! (and the cats who were asleep and looked up very annoyed at the loud noise of my laughing).

Why is it that funny? Because you said what I have thought, though I was going to use the sacrificing of goats had the thought made its way out of my head and into the discussion! “Love and tolerance for our fellows” is a hard pill to swallow (no pun intended) when our fellows feel it their job to be vocally and belligerently closed minded about ANYTHING other than their very narrow view.

I appreciate you bringing the white elephant in the middle of room. Always refreshing when someone says what it is, as it is.

I love your map!! I live way down in Jesusland and have had the Jesus fever for years. Until very recently, when my eyes were opened to a much broader understanding of the deity. I’ve lost some friends over this issue, but have gained so much more in terms of clearer thinking, more accepting relationships, and opening opportunities for healthier living.

I still consider myself a Christian, but do not limit my concept of God to the traditional Jesusland ideal. In recovery and many other aspects of a difficult life sometimes God has to be bigger and broader than that.

i read this yesterday and had a couple of different reactions. before i replied, i wanted to give it a day or so to see if i was ready to tell you what i think.

here’s what i think. (oh, as if a day would stop me!)

leaving Jesus at the door doesn’t happen for me because He is with me always. i don’t shove Him down anyone’s throat, but i also don’t believe He would tell someone to “STFU.” the Jesus of my understanding loves the woman with the beehive as much as He loves the atheist, agnostic, or anyone else. thing is, He has a much higher level of tolerance than any of us.

i had a similar problem - i find there is a lot of Catholic bashing in the rooms at times. it fires me up, but good. however, i don’t think i am like most Catholics (just the same as i don’t think i am like most alcoholics, eh?) but my sponsor told me their opinions — the ones spouting like etnas — are just that. their opinions. it is none of my business what they, or anybody else, thinks about me.

the social justice side of sweet pea wants to open a can of whoop on anyone who has a negative thing to say about anyone they are speaking of in the minority, be they Catholic, Christian, Jewish, agnostic whatever. it just goes against my grain for reasons that are deep-seeded and perhaps worthy of exploring with my therapist, barb. however, in the context of an AA meeting, they get their 3-5 minutes, as do i. while i am not fond of cross-talking, i believe you to be a clever enough boy to be able to get your point across in such a way as they wouldn’t be able to even see it coming.

just sayin’ is all

that sums up my first thought. my second thought was to share the sentiments i saw on a bumper sticker once: Jesus loves you. (everyone else thinks you’re an asshole.)

:::hugs:::

i thought you said “leave Jesus at the door,” but now know what you *meant*.

and as to what He would say, i respond amen, loved one. amen.

Did a quick check to make sure Seattle was firmly outside the bounds of Jesusland. Whew! What a difference a few mountain ranges makes, huh, Chris?

Seriously though, the underlying issue here is not religious truth, but respect. Period. Respect insinuates according equal value to everyone’s views, not just some.

I puzzle over those who act as if it is THEIR job to secure MY salvation. What is up with that? No version of Christianity I’ve come across teaches that my path to Christ originates in my neighbor’s (or fellow AAer’s) exhortation. And yet many of the residents of Jesusland behave as if their ultimate status depends on how many folks they can hoodwink into blind acceptance of their narrow notions.

They may not recognize it, but most of the rest of us see this for what it is: Ego masquerading as spirit.

STFU, indeed!

Alcoholics Anonymous History
Christians in A.A.?

By Dick B.
(August 2008)
Christians in A.A.?
I don’t have any statistics! I don’t know of any statistics. And I’m not sure I care about any statistics that might exist. But I think it would be valuable if we knew for sure that, among the two-million members worldwide, the A.A. fellowship contains a Christian or two.

As a matter of fact, it doesn’t require a statistical survey to establish that it does. How many Christian members are there? I don’t know. And it’s not the function of A.A. to find out.

But those of us who know the history of A.A., who ignore the chatter of uninformed critics, and who have attended thousands of meetings can attest to certain facts you can observe for yourself. But only if you choose to.

Some Facts You Can Observe:

(1) Early A.A. had two distinctly different origins. (2) The first was with the United Christian
Endeavor Movement and Dr. Bob’s active membership in that society and in the North Congregational Church in St. Johnsbury, Vermont. (3) Dr. Bob was then, and remained, a Christian for the rest of his life. (4) The Akron fellowship he led was called a Christian Fellowship by him and its members. (5) That fellowship required the acceptance of Christ as well as the study of the Bible by all who sought membership in it. (6) When the Cleveland Roman Catholics split off from the Akron fellowship, it was largely because their priest deemed Akron’s group to be Protestant Christian. (7) Then began a large influx of Roman Catholics to A.A. with a resultant plurality of these Christians among the membership then, and even today. (8) One need only travel to A.A. meetings in several parts of the United States to hear the confessions in meetings by speakers who consider themselves born-again Christians, and by speakers who say they were raised Catholic and have returned to their church. (9) The critics who claim that A.A. never was Christian in nature simply ignore the facts above and repudiate as well the Christianity of A.A.’s New York mentors in the Oxford Group—led by Lutheran Minister Frank Buchman, Episcopalian priest Sam Shoemaker, and a host of other Christian clergy from the Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregational, Dutch Reformed, Anglican, and other denominations. (10) Only a rabid, prejudiced outsider would claim there are no Christians in A.A. You can see and hear Roman Catholic priests and nuns speaking in and participating as members in A.A. around the world. There is a fellowship of “recovering” Episcopalian priests who espouse A.A. And there are frequently people who speak in meetings and identify themselves as Roman Catholics, or as followers of Jesus Christ, or as members of various Christian churches.

What’s the Point?

First, let’s review some pertinent facts about Alcoholics Anonymous today: (1) A.A. is not a Christian Fellowship. (2) A.A. includes members of many denominations—Protestant, Roman Catholic, Jewish, Buddhist, and humanist. (3) A.A. was once, in Akron, a Protestant Christian Fellowship. (4) A.A. in Akron was, at an early point, much influenced by Sister Ignatia, a Roman Catholic nun. (5) A.A. was once, in the New York area, strongly influenced by Jesuit Roman Catholic priests; by a number of “mainline” Protestant clergy from Calvary Episcopal Church; by Rev. Norman Vincent Peale; by Christian Science writings; and by the writings of several “New Thought” speakers and writers who considered themselves Christians. (6) Today’s A.A. has no membership as such, nor any membership requirements, nor any bars to admission. But its society consists of people from all the foregoing Christian groups as well as people who are atheists, humanists, agnostics, spiritualists, Buddhists, and unbelievers. (7) Members are not required to believe in Yahweh, Jesus Christ, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the doctrines of any sect or creed, or in anything at all. (8) There are countless utterances among A.A. members that they have a “higher power” which can be a tree, a radiator, a Coke bottle, a rock, the Big Dipper, Santa Claus, Gertrude, Him or Her or It, a light bulb, a door knob, the Great Pumpkin, and other absurd names for a supposed deity or power.(9) There is no rule or Tradition or group or hierarchy in A.A. that can exclude any of the above, that can expel them from any meetings, or that can demand adherence by members to the beliefs of the majority in such meetings. (10) Many judges, scholars, and observers have legitimately observed and in fact ruled that A.A. is still quite clearly a religion, just not a Christian religion. (11) Others dispute this point with some arguing A.A. is “spiritual” but not “religious,” failing to define what the difference might be, and ignoring the fact that both words have synonymous origins.. (12) Still others (a substantial number of Protestant Christian clergy) have a great concern that today’s A.A.–with its emphasis on the secular, on universalism, and on “any god” or “not-god”–does an immense disservice to people in A.A. who are already Christians and to those who might otherwise become Christians. The concern is based on the hostility and intimidation within the meetings directed toward those who express Christian or religious views and also on the emphasis among professionals, treatment people, and even some AAs on a pseudo-religion of “higher power spirituality.” A theology or philosophy that exudes far more New Age idolatry than can possibly be helpful to a person who believes in the Creator, Jesus Christ, the gift of the Holy Spirit, and the Bible.

The Still Open Door and Tabernacle

A.A. today is open to all comers. The question for real concern is whether it really still opens the door to, and makes room within, the fellowship for free belief, free expression, and free activities that are necessary for Christians who want to be healed. That’s a real problem. Newcomers come in befogged, fearful, bewildered, feeling guilty and ashamed, feeling abandoned and different, and despairing. Many Christians believe it worsens their condition, befuddles their recovery, and drives them away from religious help when they hear Christian convictions, Christian history, and Christian story telling ostracized by ridicule and outspoken hostility. Some clam up in fear. Some retreat elsewhere. Some suffer in guilt and shame. And some actually walk away from their beliefs.

Are there Christians in A.A. today? You bet! Is A.A. Christian today? Not on your life! Is this a problem? Yes, and a big one. Many of us came into A.A. as Christians. We hadn’t recognized our excessive drinking for what it was—whether a disease, a sin, a behavioral disorder, a genetic predisposition, or a nutritional imbalance. We felt uneasy, condemned, and wary. Yet the Christian message held and holds out far more deliverance and wholeness and cure than any meeting or sponsor or A.A. literature. We were blinded by the idolatry, idle “spirituality” talk, secularism, and false Tradition claims that discouraged the very message that ultimately could make us free, could give us the abundant life, and could assure our eternal life. At the very same time, we were usually enveloped by love and caring, by friendship and support, by disciplined direction, by tangible objectives, and by well-meaning recovered AAs, including those hostile to God, the Bible, church, and religion..

What’s the balance? For me, it wasn’t and isn’t in leaving A.A. For me, it wasn’t and isn’t about shouting my religious convictions from the rooftops. For me, it wasn’t about Christianizing A.A. or condemning those of differing beliefs. For me, it wasn’t about driving the Roman Catholics, Jews, Presbyterians, atheists, humanists, Buddhists, and Hottentots out of A.A. in into some cloistered tabernacle. It was feeling comfortable with, and being able freely to share with others, my own strong beliefs in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, the healing power of the Creator, the truth of God’s Word, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. To do so is not dangerous to me, to others, or to A.A. It’s what Christians are expected to do. I’ve done it with newcomers. I’ve done it with men I’ve sponsored. I’ve done it with other Christians and Christian groups and meetings. I’ve never looked for a scrap or debate with someone who has different ideas. And I’m not about to be prohibited from doing it in A.A.

The balance is simple: (1) Learn what early A.A. was—a Christian Fellowship that accepted Christ, relied on the Creator, attained growth through Bible study and prayer and God’s guidance, and worked with other alcoholics to assure their fellowship and cure. See The James Club and the Original A.A. Program’s Absolute Essentials (ISBN 1885803990) (2) Learn that a host of early AAs were cured in that Christian Fellowship. See When Early AAs Were Cured and Why (ISBN 188580394X). (3) Learn that there have always been two A.A.’s—the early Christian A.A. in Akron, and the eclectic non-Christian A.A. of Bill Wilson’s Big Book and Twelve Steps published four years after A.A.’s founding. See Real Twelve Step Fellowship History (ISBN 1885803877). 4) Learn that A.A. long ago opened the doors to people of all beliefs and no beliefs and deliberately omitted mention of its Christian origins, Biblical ideas, and convictions about Yahweh as Creator. See God and Alcoholism (ISBN 1885803346). (5) Learn that there are those who erroneously think that the open-door policy somehow proved that the Christian principles did not work, were abandoned, and should be resisted today. (6) Recognize that they are wrong, that there are no facts to support their statements, and that A.A. is harmed by their statements. (7) Learn that the A.A. Traditions and history make no such claims as theirs. (8) Learn that the codes of “love and service,” “love and tolerance,” and “live and let live” all have their roots in the idea of brotherhood, not contention. (9) Learn to keep our mouths shut about what A.A. is or was or did or didn’t until our minds have actually “returned,” until we’ve studied the facts, and until we’ve really seen that there truly is, and—in today’s A.A.—must be, room for all. See A New Way Out (ISBN 1885803893). All mentioned titles can be found on Amazon.com and seen described at http://www.dickb.com/titles.shtml.

Gloria Deo

Dick B., PO Box 837, Kihei, HI 96753-0837
dickb@dickb.com
808 874 4876
http://www.dickb.com/index.shtml.

thats it, brother